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Published on:

4th Mar 2024

Behind the Scenes - The Making of In & Around Podcasting

In this bonus episode, Mark and Danny discuss the purpose and vision of the In and Around Podcasting show. They emphasize the importance of inclusivity and alternative viewpoints in the podcasting industry. They introduce the show's segments, including the Stupid Stuff in Podcasting, the Flattering Ram, the Wave File and the Whimsical Podcasting Wishlist. The hosts express their excitement for the show and their commitment to highlighting powerful podcasting perspectives.

Takeaways

  • Inclusivity and alternative viewpoints are crucial in the podcasting industry.
  • The industry should strive to be more accessible and welcoming to all podcasters.
  • Recognizing and highlighting good people and their contributions in the industry is important.
  • Sharing ideas and giving credit to all podcasters, regardless of their status, can lead to industry progress.

Chapters

  • 00:00 Introduction and Purpose of the Show
  • 01:21 The Love for Podcasting
  • 02:38 Challenges of Being a Solo Podcaster
  • 04:15 The Importance of Inclusivity in the Podcasting Industry
  • 06:03 The Need for Alternative Viewpoints
  • 08:21 The Vision of In and Around Podcasting
  • 09:18 The Trend Towards Inclusivity in the Podcasting Community
  • 10:14 The Importance of Making Podcasting Accessible
  • 11:05 The Divide in the Podcasting Industry
  • 12:03 Introduction to Show Segments
  • 13:23 The Stupid Stuff in Podcasting
  • 14:28 The Flattering Ram
  • 15:23 Highlighting Good People in the Industry
  • 16:25 The Whimsical Podcasting Wishlist
  • 19:01 Equalizing Ideas and Giving Credit
  • 20:18 Excitement for the Show
  • 21:08 Closing Remarks

In & Around Podcasting is a podcast industry podcast brought to you by Mark Asquith and Danny Brown.

If you enjoy the show, we'd love for you to leave us a rating or review on your favourite podcast app!

If you're an independent creator who would like to co-host with us, please let us know via Twitter and we'll get you booked!

Please tell your friends that the show is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube, plus wherever else they may listen to their podcasts.

If you'd like your podcast trailer featuring in our "Wave File" segment, submit it via this quick contact form, please.

The podcast is also available at In & Around Podcasting.



This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
Speaker:

Hello and welcome to this bonus episode of

In and Around Podcasting.

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This is the inclusive podcast industry

show that is here to highlight powerful

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podcasting perspectives and in particular

to give everyone in and around podcasting

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their chance to shine.

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It's really important that everyone has

their say.

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This is, of course, a bonus episode where

I'm going to talk to the wonderful Danny

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Brown, my co -host here on In and Around

Podcasting about why we created the show.

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kind of vibe that we want from the show

and just, you know, we're going to

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elaborate a little bit more on what you

can expect.

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My name is Mark Asquith, the co -founder,

managing director of Captivate .fm.

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And I highly recommend if you're new to

this show, tell your friends they can

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listen in their podcast app of choice at

inandaroundpodcasting .com slash listen or

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even on the YouTube mon...

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what a modern world we live in indeed.

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And I hope you enjoyed the last bonus

episode about the music.

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with the wonderful Katherine Rannis.

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If you haven't heard that, go and check it

out.

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It's there for you to tune into right now.

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Enough of this.

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Enough of me waffling on.

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Danny, hello.

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You all right, mate?

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All good, all good.

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And yeah, I like the music.

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I'm looking forward to that episode.

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I haven't listened to the episode, but

I've listened to the music and I really

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enjoy it.

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So that'll be a fun one.

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Yeah, it's a curious one, actually.

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I want to talk.

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We'll talk about that first, actually,

because the brand of in and around

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podcasting, I think is important.

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And you and me are plugged into podcasting

pretty hard.

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I mean, you run the customer experience at

Captivate, but you do a heck of a lot in

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podcasting.

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You got your one minute podcasting tips.

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Like you're just generally one of us in

podcasting, aren't you?

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That's what you do.

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That's your day job and your night job.

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Yeah, you've got more podcasts than

probably anyone that I know.

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And then I know you're going to say that

I've got more podcasts than you.

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So I'm taking that away.

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back at you mate, with your golf and Star

Wars and this and launch accelerator, I

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guess, still there, there about.

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So yeah, yeah.

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But yeah, I hear you.

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But it's like a two, right?

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You get one and that's it.

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You're done for life.

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Now you just want more and more and more.

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Yeah, I get that.

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That's pretty cool thing about it.

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That's why I actually wanted to bring this

show together.

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We had this idea for the show a long time

ago, and it was it's always been

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interesting to try and get this out there

because.

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I've as you know, I've got the podcast

accelerator for three hundred and twenty

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four episodes, plus some bonuses that have

expired now, and it's I love that podcast,

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but it gets difficult doing it on your

own.

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And because the podcast industry has grown

so much, I was finding it really difficult

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to do.

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that all the time and to be really good at

it.

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Like I'm a fan.

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I don't think you should do if you're

going to try and do podcast industry

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stuff.

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I don't think you can do it half

heartedly.

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So I really struggled with that, which,

which, which gets us to this podcast,

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which I'll talk about in a sec about how

the heck do you keep on with your one

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minute podcasting tips and everything else

that you do?

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Do you, is it, do you find it tough being

solo sometimes?

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Yeah, definitely.

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That's why I mean, I've got a new show

coming out in March and I know you took

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the piss out of me on Twitter when I

announced that or X if you want to be

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late, you know, whatever.

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Yeah.

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But yeah, I do find it hard and that's why

I gave up my Podchap show.

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I really enjoyed doing that and you were

on that and you were one of the first

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guests on that and that was awesome.

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Really good show to do.

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But it's just a lot of work.

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Right.

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And as a solo indie podcaster who can't

really afford to outsource editing and

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producing and all that stuff, it's a lot

of work.

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So you do get burnt out and you do suffer

pod fade.

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And I think it's okay to recognize that

step back and really focus on the stuff

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that you want to do.

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So that's why I focus on one minute

podcast tips because it's super simple to

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do.

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It's a short show, very little editing,

very little production needed, et cetera.

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And it gets that love of the genre back

into you, right?

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Yeah, that's the thing that you will have

podcasting that much.

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And that's one thing that I want to really

stress with this show.

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Everything that has been done, we

outsourced the cover art.

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I got that from.

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I want to say, I think I got it from 99

Designs, which I'm not always a fan of,

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but I tried it.

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I'm not a fan of speculative design, but I

did.

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I did try the first time I used it and the

result was good.

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And then Catherine did the music for this

one and it is.

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This has really come from that love of

podcasting.

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Like I love podcasting a lot, but I

stepped off the content for a while.

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We had our little girl and it was

difficult to stay on top of doing good

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content.

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Being a solo, not just a solo like

production company where we're doing all

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the editing, because we're doing all the

editing here.

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We're not outsourcing any of the editing

or any of the social clips or any of that

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stuff.

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We're not, none of it is being outsourced.

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None of this show now is being outsourced

apart from those two bits that I mentioned

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earlier.

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The...

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The difficult thing about being a genuine

solo presenter is that like you're doing

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the ideas, you're coming up with, you've

got to always have that vigor.

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And it's hard sometimes, even though you

love doing it, it's hard to keep the

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energy up.

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And I don't know about you, but what I

find is that the industry is moving that

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quickly that you do sometimes need as

well, like alternative opinions.

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I'm not known for being quiet and not

having opinions, but I'm not always right.

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And I think it's important that...

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as this show moves forward.

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It's not just you and I, it's, you know,

we've got, we've got industry thinkers and

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we've also got indie podcasters.

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So yeah, I don't know.

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How do you feel about that whole, the idea

of being able to challenge the thinking in

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the space, because it's not just a series

of two or three people now.

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It's a, it's actually an industry.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And I think the main issue is you see a

lot of co -hosted podcasts that are

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talking about the industry, for example,

and generally they're agreeing with each

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other's points and nothing wrong with

that.

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They're making good points about it, but

you want to be challenged.

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You want to be questioned.

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Well, why do you think that when there's

this other, you know, whole other

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subcategory of the industry that doesn't

think that way and they're doing great

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stuff.

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So I think it's, it's really important for

listeners to get multiple viewpoints that

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doesn't just buy into, you know, the two

co -hosts of

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been doing it for years and think they

know everything.

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It's really important to get that from

industry insiders, but also new

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podcasters.

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Podcasters are just really getting started

in space or just dipping their toes in and

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are confused about all the tech jargon

that a lot of people love to talk about

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because it's super sexy, but doesn't mean

anything to me as a new podcaster trying

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to find my way in this space.

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So I think it's super, super important.

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And that's why I'm really looking forward

to doing this with you.

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Yeah, the echo chamber is real, you know,

and it's not just in podcasts.

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I see it in a lot of industries.

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It's in the golf industry where I do a lot

of content.

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It's where it's in like the pop culture

industry where we do a lot of content.

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Echo chambers exist.

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And I think it's super important for

development for us all to move forward

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that we step outside those echo chambers.

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And that's really, that's actually part of

what catalyzed this show.

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So the idea for the show is that a lot of

industries shows and I love them and

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they're often run by friends.

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And and don't get me wrong, I don't think

there's a bad podcast industry show

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because everyone's doing their thing how

they want to do it.

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But I think very often it's the view from

the top.

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And I think what we sometimes see is that

it's very difficult sometimes for the

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independent creator that sat here in the

bedroom, you know, doing what they want to

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do and enjoying it.

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They don't really care that much about the

industry, but that might, you know, just

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have feelers out on Twitter, maybe in some

of the Facebook groups.

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And they're just seeing these things.

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What is podcasting 2 .0?

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Holy crap.

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Like all the time it's going to add.

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I don't know what it is.

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I'm scared of it.

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And wow.

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Okay.

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It's great that the average CPM is this,

but I'm at 50 downloads per episode and I

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love podcasting.

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What the hell does that mean to me?

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So I think the view from the top is

sometimes quite scary.

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So I'm keen for the mission of this

podcast to be positivity.

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All right.

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I think it's very important that you and I

bring on industry thinkers, but also even

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on the same episode.

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bring in independent podcasters that might

just might not care about whether it's

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delivered via RSS or whether it's on

YouTube or whether it's this, that or the

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other, because all they're trying to do is

get the thing out and just make sure that

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they can keep going.

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So that's really important.

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And that's in the lyrics of the intro.

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It's in this not just for the geeks and

the OGs shows for those in and around

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podcasting.

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And the important part is.

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the around bit because 99 % of people

aren't in podcasting.

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They are around podcasting.

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You know, we're in podcasting.

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We work in podcasting, but a podcaster,

the chat that runs the local podcast here

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in our village, he's around podcasting

because he podcasts.

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And every time I see him in the pub, he's

like, what's this V for V then?

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Well, this is not for a Friday night.

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It's not for a Friday night.

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So I just find that that makes up the vast

majority.

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And people like that sort of get a little

bit a little bit left out sometimes when

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it comes to thinking about the industry.

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Positivity is key, man.

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You're really good at that.

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You're massively inclusive.

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You really go out of your way to help

people feel included in that.

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Do you see that?

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Do you see that trending?

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Are we getting more inclusive?

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Are we getting more?

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Are we getting friendlier as an industry?

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How do you feel about that?

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I so.

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I mean, you mentioned online, I mean, I'm

highly involved in the Reddit community on

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the podcast and sub threads.

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And there's a lot of positivity there.

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You know, people ask questions and the

newcomers to the space and nobody you get,

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you'll get the odd one that's a bit high

and mighty.

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Oh, blah, blah.

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If you don't do this, blah, blah, blah.

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But most people, 99 % of them, going back

to your number, want to help and want

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these.

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It's like the old saying, you know, if you

rise of a ship or every ship rise or

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whatever that saying is, you know what it

is.

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So I think it is generally a helpful space

compared to other mediums.

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I'm a video gamer and I look at the video

game social accounts and a lot of the

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aggression between consoles still and

owners of Xbox and PS5 and Nintendo

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whatever and there's a lot of put downs.

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I don't really see that in the podcasting

space which is great to see but I think we

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still have to jump over that little hurdle

of

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making it super accessible and super easy

to understand for a the layman podcaster

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and the listener.

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Because let's not forget, if we don't have

listeners, you know, does a podcast even

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exist?

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It's like got that RSS question, right?

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So I'm happy to see that a lot of

podcasters and leaders in the space are

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really open to helping others climb up and

get to where they want to go.

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Yeah, I love that.

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That was the thing I fell in love with in

podcasting back in:

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It was.

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And especially when I when I started

attending conferences, everyone was really

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helpful.

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They were, you know, it took us a little

time to overcome some of the coolness,

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shall I say, from some of the incumbents

in the hosting space.

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But I classed them as friends now and I

have them for a decade.

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And it's it's it's interesting because

I've always felt that inclusivity.

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However.

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think as this has become more of an

industry as opposed to a more of a

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hobbyist environment, you know, it was

unfair to say that it was podcasting was

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more of a hobbyist environment 10 years

ago.

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Now it is just genuinely an industry.

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I just feel like that separation, even

though there's a there's an air of

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inclusiveness and people want to include

other people, there's just that natural

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divide.

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There's the people that are doing it to

build massive media.

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And then there's the people that are

creators and thriving on the creator

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economy.

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And there's the people that just do it

because they love doing it.

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And I want to try and unite as many people

as possible, which is why we came up with

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these segments.

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So if you're not familiar, if you've not

listened to the Catherine Rannis episode,

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each and every episode of In and Around

podcasting will feature at least one

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segment.

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And there's going to be some interesting

uses of these, one of them in particular,

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which I'll start with, it's called the

wave form.

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And the...

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The the the the wave form, the wave file

is a little nod, of course, to audio to

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tech.

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But the idea of this is we're going to

build this up.

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We've got a jingle for it.

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We've got a segment jingle that Catherine

did.

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Beautiful thing.

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And we're going to use Captivate's dynamic

content insertion platform called Amy.

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And every single episode, we're going to

dynamically insert our jingle and then

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we're going to dynamically insert a

trailer for another podcast.

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And we might run trailers, the same

trailer for a month, same trailer for two

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weeks or two, whatever.

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and we'll just highlight new podcasts.

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That's the point of this is to spread

positivity.

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That's the way file.

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But we've got we've got some other

segments.

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And this is all about spreading number

one, positivity and number two, just being

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really open and fair.

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Perhaps the most contentious segment.

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Is the stupid stuff in podcasting.

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Which we've got a great jingle for.

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But I don't know about you, there's always

something that you think you see on

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LinkedIn or Twitter or Facebook.

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You think, what is going on here?

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What is this?

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And I just wanted a way to highlight that.

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So I know you, man.

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You don't like stupid stuff in podcasting.

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I'm betting you're probably looking

forward to digging into that segment.

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That's going to be my favourite bit,

that's why I get up in the morning and I'm

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going to be looking for the stupidest

stuff online and bringing it over.

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You will find it as well.

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You're known for your depth of research.

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No, it's a funny one, isn't it?

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fun.

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It's going to be good.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, it's a nice little segment.

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And it's not to be, again, it's not to be

crass or callous.

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It's just basically to say, look, we're

probably going to get this advice from

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someone.

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This is probably not the greatest idea.

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It feels a bit stupid.

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Let's look at an alternative.

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So I'm really looking forward to that.

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We've got another segment which I'm really

looking forward to, which is not.

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Normally in media, normally in industries,

people like you said, there's a little bit

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of animosity and I see it a lot in the

golf industry.

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I see it a lot in pop culture.

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Like with Star Wars, you'll see it a lot

in gaming.

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As you said, everyone's getting battered.

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It's all about being divisive, isn't it?

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It's all about sort of, you know, this is

what I think and you're wrong.

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I wanted to go the other way with this

one.

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So we've got a segment called the

flattering ram, which I want to use to, I

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want to use to highlight good people.

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doing good things.

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And that might just be something as simple

as giving a shout out to Harry Durand's

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wonderful hair or James Cridland's

wonderful tie, whatever that might be,

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just something to spread positivity.

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But in essence, all jokes aside,

highlighting people that are doing great

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work, right, highlighting people that are

doing good things.

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And again, I don't know about you, but I

feel like there's just not necessarily

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enough of that in the industry.

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Yeah, we're all very good at complaining

about stuff.

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Like I know Neil, Neil Veglio, who's one

of our podcasters, who's mentioned about

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Apple being slow today, not ingesting new

episodes.

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And it's easy, and that's not a dig at

Neil at all, but it's easy to go online

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and say, hey, this isn't working, as

opposed to saying, hey, Apple's published

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1 ,000 of my episodes so far for 10 of my

clients.

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It's awesome.

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I'll give them all away slack this

morning.

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So yeah, I think it's nice to, it's very

easy to complain about something.

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it's less easy to give credit where it's

due.

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And I think that's a nice way, again, it's

a whole inclusiveness of the space and

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really recognizing the people that are

doing great things, but aren't necessarily

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shouting from the rooftops to bring

attention to themselves.

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So it'd be nice to actually shine a

spotlight on them.

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Yeah, I like that.

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And I feel there's a lot of importance in

the little micro things, the micro details

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that people do, just the little the

interactions, the help that people give

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online and just be able to shout out to

people on Twitter, you know, someone

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someone asking a question and someone

diving in with an answer and then

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following it up.

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You know, these little things don't get

credited that much in the industry, but

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that's where we came from.

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That kind of we talked about earlier, that

inclusiveness and that ability for

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everyone to kind of help each other was

what attracted me.

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It's what attracted you.

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And I just don't feel like because we've

become an industry in this big media.

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There's a lot of that that gets missed.

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So I really want to kind of find some of

those and just highlight some of those,

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give people a big shout out.

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And the last segment that we'll talk

about, and it's important to note, we

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might not feature every one of these

segments in every episode.

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It's really kind of a nice, flexible

brand, which I really like.

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But the last one is the wonderfully

whimsical podcasting wishlist, which I

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:

really wanted to get in there as a...

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You know, wouldn't it be nice if this

thing occurred or wouldn't it be nice if

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:

this thing existed and just a way for us

to kind of start to ideate.

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And I think personally that.

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Everyone has ideas in podcasting, whether

you're a bedroom podcast or whether you're

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:

someone running a, you know, a

multimillion dollar media agency or

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:

whatever that might be.

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Everyone has ideas about progressing the

industry, and I want to try and give as

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:

much spotlight to those as possible.

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:

So the.

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:

wonderfully whimsical podcasting wishlist

is I think it's just a way of getting

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:

people to be comfortable sharing ideas.

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:

And that might be you or me.

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It might be things that we've seen online

and giving shout outs and credits, but

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:

also people that we have on the show, the

independent podcast that might not feel

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:

like they've got a voice.

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:

You know, I really want to highlight those

those those podcasting perspectives.

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:

And you must see this all the time in

Reddit, you know, all the ideas and so on.

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:

But no one gets credit for it, do they?

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:

No, exactly.

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:

And there's a lot of great ideas there as

well that saves time.

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:

And for the indie podcasters, saving time

is so, so key to enjoying podcasting.

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:

You don't want to be lumbered down,

spending hours and hours on research and

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:

editing and everything.

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:

So there's lots of good ideas come from

Reddit.

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:

Say, wouldn't it be awesome if I could do

this once I uploaded my file?

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:

All this crazy stuff for me.

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:

Now, it might not be realistic, but why

not think ahead?

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:

Well, and that's where we all develop.

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:

That's back to the all ships rise thing.

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You know, when it when we think about the

way that we've all developed as hosting

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:

platforms and some of the other technology

that exists in the space, it didn't exist

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:

before.

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:

You know, everything that has come about

in podcasting is born of a problem, which

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:

is then forced an idea.

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And we continue to do that.

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:

We captivate and all the other hosts

continue to do that in their own specific

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:

ways.

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:

And it's I just feel like a lot of people

don't get the credit for it.

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:

We got on the other day was Stephen.

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:

And.

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one of our podcasters that recently hit a

million downloads and he just, I emailed

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:

him to congratulate him.

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:

Just a really well done, man.

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:

That's amazing.

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:

Email back and said, you know, have you

thought about this?

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:

And actually the thing that he'd

suggested, it was very adjacent to a

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:

project that I'd just briefed for

Captivate.

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:

And I was able to go back to him and say,

mate, like I will, here's the brief that I

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:

wrote for this idea.

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:

Do you mind if I add your bit to it?

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:

And obviously we'd love to shout out and

credit you on it.

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:

And I just, I don't feel that that exists

enough in the industry.

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:

So.

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:

I think it's just equalizing it.

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:

It's not driven by the thought leaders

solely.

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:

It's driven by podcasters, people,

everyone.

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:

This is everyone's industry.

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:

It's not for the top 1%, is it?

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:

Nah, it's always the end user that comes

up with the best ideas because they're the

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:

ones that are using the product day in,

day out.

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:

Like we work at Captivate, so we might

think there's a really cool feature coming

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:

out.

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:

But when you actually give it to beta

testers and real life users, they'll come

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:

back and say, you know what, this part

doesn't work that we haven't spotted

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:

because we've been embedded with it for so

long.

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:

So it's always the end user, I feel, that

makes a product better and comes up with

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:

some of the cooler ideas to actually help

more podcasters get to where they want to

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:

go to as well.

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:

Yeah, I love that.

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:

I love that.

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:

Well, I'm excited for the show, mate.

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:

Thank you for thank you for co -hosting it

with me.

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:

It's not even it's not even something that

feels like a chore, is it?

434

:

It just feels like fun.

435

:

It's one of those fun things.

436

:

Yep, yeah, exactly.

437

:

We have to, I mean, obviously I'm in

Canada, you're in the UK.

438

:

I was going to say we have to do one on a

Friday night.

439

:

Well, that might be a bit tougher to do,

like have a beer in the other side or

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:

whatever.

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:

But yeah, I'm really looking forward to

this.

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:

It feels fresh, it feels fun and a little

bit different from what's currently out

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:

there.

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:

So yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to

it.

445

:

Good man, appreciate it.

446

:

Yeah, we'll get some live recordings as

well.

447

:

If you ever see Danny or myself or both of

us at a podcasting event, we will more

448

:

than likely have a microphone recording

something for In -N -Around podcasting.

449

:

Now we're going to be releasing every

episode every week on a Tuesday morning.

450

:

So it will be there in your podcast app of

choice in In -N -Around podcasting .com

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:

slash listen.

452

:

You can find us on the old Twitter.

453

:

How are we allowed to say Twitter these

days?

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:

You can find us on X.

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:

I never call it X.

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:

Yeah, find us on Twitter.

457

:

in around podcast, go and find us.

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:

You'll see on my profile as well at Mr.

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:

Asquith.

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:

But we're looking forward to this.

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:

And remember, this is the accessible

podcast industry show that is here and

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:

exists solely to highlight powerful

podcasting perspectives.

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:

So we'll see you on the first episode.

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:

Enjoy and tell your friends.

465

:

Pod on.

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:

Pod on.

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:

I mean, does catchphrase pod.

Show artwork for In & Around Podcasting

About the Podcast

In & Around Podcasting
Highlighting Powerful Podcasting Perspectives: the inclusive podcast industry show for the day-to-day podcast enthusiast. Bringing industry insiders and real-life podcasters together to dig deep into the future of podcasting.
We love podcast industry podcasts - there are a lot of them and they're run by smart, passionate people who live and breathe podcasting and who are usually industry professionals.

Sometimes though, they don't give the day-to-day enthusiast, creator or indie podcaster a platform to have their say, often taking "the view from the top" as delivered by the "podcasting professionals".

In & Around Podcasting has been designed to respect and live alongside those shows and to be an accessible, inclusive podcast for every single podcaster; a show that allows everyone with an interest in the medium to have a fair, open and transparent view on the podcasting industry and how it affects them - this is your place to be heard.

The podcasting industry belongs to us all, not just the elite and it doesn't matter how long you've been in the industry, your voice is valuable.

Download the intro lyrics and more at https://www.inandaroundpodcasting.com.

About your hosts

Mark Asquith

Profile picture for Mark Asquith
Known as "That British Podcast Guy", Mark is one of the United Kingdom's original podcasting experts. He is Managing Director & co-founder of podcast hosting, analytics & monetisation platform Captivate.fm which was acquired by Global in 2021 and is known worldwide as an insightful, thought provoking and actionable podcast industry keynote speaker.

Mark has educated on podcasting and delivered thought leadership at events including Podcast Movement, Podfest, Harvard's "Sound Education" and many more.

His focus is on helping people to achieve their own podcasting goals and on improving the podcasting industry for the long-term.

Danny Brown

Profile picture for Danny Brown
Danny has hosted and co-hosted (and appeared on) so many podcasts, if you called him a serial podcaster you wouldn't be wrong! He's been in the podcasting space for over 10 years, and has the scars to prove it.

He's the Head of Podcaster Support and Experience at Captivate.fm, the podcast hosting, distribution, analytics, and monetization platform for the serious indie podcaster.

He lives in beautiful Muskoka, Ontario, Canada with his wife and two kids, where he spends winters in front of a cozy fire and summers by the lake. Well, when he finds time away from podcasting, of course...