Behind the Scenes - The Making of In & Around Podcasting

Speaker: 00:00:01

Hello and welcome to this bonus episode of

In and Around Podcasting.

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This is the inclusive podcast industry

show that is here to highlight powerful

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podcasting perspectives and in particular

to give everyone in and around podcasting

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their chance to shine.

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It's really important that everyone has

their say.

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This is, of course, a bonus episode where

I'm going to talk to the wonderful Danny

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Brown, my co -host here on In and Around

Podcasting about why we created the show.

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kind of vibe that we want from the show

and just, you know, we're going to

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elaborate a little bit more on what you

can expect.

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My name is Mark Asquith, the co -founder,

managing director of Captivate .fm.

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And I highly recommend if you're new to

this show, tell your friends they can

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listen in their podcast app of choice at

inandaroundpodcasting .com slash listen or

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even on the YouTube mon...

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what a modern world we live in indeed.

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And I hope you enjoyed the last bonus

episode about the music.

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with the wonderful Katherine Rannis.

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If you haven't heard that, go and check it

out.

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It's there for you to tune into right now.

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Enough of this.

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Enough of me waffling on.

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Danny, hello.

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You all right, mate?

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All good, all good.

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And yeah, I like the music.

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I'm looking forward to that episode.

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I haven't listened to the episode, but

I've listened to the music and I really

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enjoy it.

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So that'll be a fun one.

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Yeah, it's a curious one, actually.

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I want to talk.

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We'll talk about that first, actually,

because the brand of in and around

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podcasting, I think is important.

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And you and me are plugged into podcasting

pretty hard.

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I mean, you run the customer experience at

Captivate, but you do a heck of a lot in

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podcasting.

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You got your one minute podcasting tips.

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Like you're just generally one of us in

podcasting, aren't you?

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That's what you do.

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That's your day job and your night job.

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Yeah, you've got more podcasts than

probably anyone that I know.

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And then I know you're going to say that

I've got more podcasts than you.

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So I'm taking that away.

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back at you mate, with your golf and Star

Wars and this and launch accelerator, I

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guess, still there, there about.

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So yeah, yeah.

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But yeah, I hear you.

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But it's like a two, right?

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You get one and that's it.

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You're done for life.

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Now you just want more and more and more.

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Yeah, I get that.

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That's pretty cool thing about it.

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That's why I actually wanted to bring this

show together.

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We had this idea for the show a long time

ago, and it was it's always been

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interesting to try and get this out there

because.

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I've as you know, I've got the podcast

accelerator for three hundred and twenty

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four episodes, plus some bonuses that have

expired now, and it's I love that podcast,

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but it gets difficult doing it on your

own.

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And because the podcast industry has grown

so much, I was finding it really difficult

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to do.

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that all the time and to be really good at

it.

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Like I'm a fan.

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I don't think you should do if you're

going to try and do podcast industry

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stuff.

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I don't think you can do it half

heartedly.

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So I really struggled with that, which,

which, which gets us to this podcast,

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which I'll talk about in a sec about how

the heck do you keep on with your one

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minute podcasting tips and everything else

that you do?

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Do you, is it, do you find it tough being

solo sometimes?

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Yeah, definitely.

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That's why I mean, I've got a new show

coming out in March and I know you took

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the piss out of me on Twitter when I

announced that or X if you want to be

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late, you know, whatever.

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Yeah.

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But yeah, I do find it hard and that's why

I gave up my Podchap show.

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I really enjoyed doing that and you were

on that and you were one of the first

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guests on that and that was awesome.

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Really good show to do.

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But it's just a lot of work.

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Right.

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And as a solo indie podcaster who can't

really afford to outsource editing and

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producing and all that stuff, it's a lot

of work.

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So you do get burnt out and you do suffer

pod fade.

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And I think it's okay to recognize that

step back and really focus on the stuff

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that you want to do.

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So that's why I focus on one minute

podcast tips because it's super simple to

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do.

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It's a short show, very little editing,

very little production needed, et cetera.

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And it gets that love of the genre back

into you, right?

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Yeah, that's the thing that you will have

podcasting that much.

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And that's one thing that I want to really

stress with this show.

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Everything that has been done, we

outsourced the cover art.

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I got that from.

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I want to say, I think I got it from 99

Designs, which I'm not always a fan of,

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but I tried it.

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I'm not a fan of speculative design, but I

did.

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I did try the first time I used it and the

result was good.

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And then Catherine did the music for this

one and it is.

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This has really come from that love of

podcasting.

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Like I love podcasting a lot, but I

stepped off the content for a while.

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We had our little girl and it was

difficult to stay on top of doing good

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content.

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Being a solo, not just a solo like

production company where we're doing all

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the editing, because we're doing all the

editing here.

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We're not outsourcing any of the editing

or any of the social clips or any of that

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stuff.

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We're not, none of it is being outsourced.

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None of this show now is being outsourced

apart from those two bits that I mentioned

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earlier.

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The...

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The difficult thing about being a genuine

solo presenter is that like you're doing

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the ideas, you're coming up with, you've

got to always have that vigor.

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And it's hard sometimes, even though you

love doing it, it's hard to keep the

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energy up.

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And I don't know about you, but what I

find is that the industry is moving that

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quickly that you do sometimes need as

well, like alternative opinions.

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I'm not known for being quiet and not

having opinions, but I'm not always right.

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And I think it's important that...

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as this show moves forward.

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It's not just you and I, it's, you know,

we've got, we've got industry thinkers and

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we've also got indie podcasters.

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So yeah, I don't know.

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How do you feel about that whole, the idea

of being able to challenge the thinking in

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the space, because it's not just a series

of two or three people now.

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It's a, it's actually an industry.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And I think the main issue is you see a

lot of co -hosted podcasts that are

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talking about the industry, for example,

and generally they're agreeing with each

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other's points and nothing wrong with

that.

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They're making good points about it, but

you want to be challenged.

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You want to be questioned.

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Well, why do you think that when there's

this other, you know, whole other

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subcategory of the industry that doesn't

think that way and they're doing great

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stuff.

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So I think it's, it's really important for

listeners to get multiple viewpoints that

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doesn't just buy into, you know, the two

co -hosts of

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been doing it for years and think they

know everything.

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It's really important to get that from

industry insiders, but also new

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podcasters.

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Podcasters are just really getting started

in space or just dipping their toes in and

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are confused about all the tech jargon

that a lot of people love to talk about

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because it's super sexy, but doesn't mean

anything to me as a new podcaster trying

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to find my way in this space.

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So I think it's super, super important.

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And that's why I'm really looking forward

to doing this with you.

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Yeah, the echo chamber is real, you know,

and it's not just in podcasts.

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I see it in a lot of industries.

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It's in the golf industry where I do a lot

of content.

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It's where it's in like the pop culture

industry where we do a lot of content.

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Echo chambers exist.

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And I think it's super important for

development for us all to move forward

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that we step outside those echo chambers.

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And that's really, that's actually part of

what catalyzed this show.

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So the idea for the show is that a lot of

industries shows and I love them and

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they're often run by friends.

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And and don't get me wrong, I don't think

there's a bad podcast industry show

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because everyone's doing their thing how

they want to do it.

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But I think very often it's the view from

the top.

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And I think what we sometimes see is that

it's very difficult sometimes for the

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independent creator that sat here in the

bedroom, you know, doing what they want to

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do and enjoying it.

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They don't really care that much about the

industry, but that might, you know, just

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have feelers out on Twitter, maybe in some

of the Facebook groups.

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And they're just seeing these things.

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What is podcasting 2 .0?

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Holy crap.

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Like all the time it's going to add.

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I don't know what it is.

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I'm scared of it.

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And wow.

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Okay.

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It's great that the average CPM is this,

but I'm at 50 downloads per episode and I

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love podcasting.

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What the hell does that mean to me?

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So I think the view from the top is

sometimes quite scary.

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So I'm keen for the mission of this

podcast to be positivity.

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All right.

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I think it's very important that you and I

bring on industry thinkers, but also even

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on the same episode.

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bring in independent podcasters that might

just might not care about whether it's

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delivered via RSS or whether it's on

YouTube or whether it's this, that or the

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other, because all they're trying to do is

get the thing out and just make sure that

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they can keep going.

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So that's really important.

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And that's in the lyrics of the intro.

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It's in this not just for the geeks and

the OGs shows for those in and around

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podcasting.

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And the important part is.

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the around bit because 99 % of people

aren't in podcasting.

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They are around podcasting.

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You know, we're in podcasting.

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We work in podcasting, but a podcaster,

the chat that runs the local podcast here

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in our village, he's around podcasting

because he podcasts.

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And every time I see him in the pub, he's

like, what's this V for V then?

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Well, this is not for a Friday night.

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It's not for a Friday night.

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So I just find that that makes up the vast

majority.

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And people like that sort of get a little

bit a little bit left out sometimes when

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it comes to thinking about the industry.

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Positivity is key, man.

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You're really good at that.

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You're massively inclusive.

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You really go out of your way to help

people feel included in that.

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Do you see that?

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Do you see that trending?

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Are we getting more inclusive?

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Are we getting more?

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Are we getting friendlier as an industry?

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How do you feel about that?

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I so.

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I mean, you mentioned online, I mean, I'm

highly involved in the Reddit community on

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the podcast and sub threads.

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And there's a lot of positivity there.

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You know, people ask questions and the

newcomers to the space and nobody you get,

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you'll get the odd one that's a bit high

and mighty.

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Oh, blah, blah.

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If you don't do this, blah, blah, blah.

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But most people, 99 % of them, going back

to your number, want to help and want

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these.

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It's like the old saying, you know, if you

rise of a ship or every ship rise or

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whatever that saying is, you know what it

is.

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So I think it is generally a helpful space

compared to other mediums.

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I'm a video gamer and I look at the video

game social accounts and a lot of the

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aggression between consoles still and

owners of Xbox and PS5 and Nintendo

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whatever and there's a lot of put downs.

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I don't really see that in the podcasting

space which is great to see but I think we

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still have to jump over that little hurdle

of

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making it super accessible and super easy

to understand for a the layman podcaster

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and the listener.

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Because let's not forget, if we don't have

listeners, you know, does a podcast even

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exist?

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It's like got that RSS question, right?

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So I'm happy to see that a lot of

podcasters and leaders in the space are

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really open to helping others climb up and

get to where they want to go.

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Yeah, I love that.

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That was the thing I fell in love with in

podcasting back in: 2013

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It was.

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And especially when I when I started

attending conferences, everyone was really

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helpful.

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They were, you know, it took us a little

time to overcome some of the coolness,

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shall I say, from some of the incumbents

in the hosting space.

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But I classed them as friends now and I

have them for a decade.

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And it's it's it's interesting because

I've always felt that inclusivity.

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However.

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think as this has become more of an

industry as opposed to a more of a

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hobbyist environment, you know, it was

unfair to say that it was podcasting was

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more of a hobbyist environment 10 years

ago.

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Now it is just genuinely an industry.

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I just feel like that separation, even

though there's a there's an air of

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inclusiveness and people want to include

other people, there's just that natural

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divide.

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There's the people that are doing it to

build massive media.

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And then there's the people that are

creators and thriving on the creator

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economy.

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And there's the people that just do it

because they love doing it.

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And I want to try and unite as many people

as possible, which is why we came up with

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these segments.

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So if you're not familiar, if you've not

listened to the Catherine Rannis episode,

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each and every episode of In and Around

podcasting will feature at least one

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segment.

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And there's going to be some interesting

uses of these, one of them in particular,

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which I'll start with, it's called the

wave form.

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And the...

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The the the the wave form, the wave file

is a little nod, of course, to audio to

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tech.

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But the idea of this is we're going to

build this up.

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We've got a jingle for it.

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We've got a segment jingle that Catherine

did.

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Beautiful thing.

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And we're going to use Captivate's dynamic

content insertion platform called Amy.

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And every single episode, we're going to

dynamically insert our jingle and then

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we're going to dynamically insert a

trailer for another podcast.

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And we might run trailers, the same

trailer for a month, same trailer for two

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weeks or two, whatever.

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and we'll just highlight new podcasts.

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That's the point of this is to spread

positivity.

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That's the way file.

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But we've got we've got some other

segments.

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And this is all about spreading number

one, positivity and number two, just being

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really open and fair.

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Perhaps the most contentious segment.

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Is the stupid stuff in podcasting.

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Which we've got a great jingle for.

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But I don't know about you, there's always

something that you think you see on

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LinkedIn or Twitter or Facebook.

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You think, what is going on here?

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What is this?

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And I just wanted a way to highlight that.

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So I know you, man.

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You don't like stupid stuff in podcasting.

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I'm betting you're probably looking

forward to digging into that segment.

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That's going to be my favourite bit,

that's why I get up in the morning and I'm

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going to be looking for the stupidest

stuff online and bringing it over.

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You will find it as well.

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You're known for your depth of research.

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No, it's a funny one, isn't it?

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fun.

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It's going to be good.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, it's a nice little segment.

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And it's not to be, again, it's not to be

crass or callous.

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It's just basically to say, look, we're

probably going to get this advice from

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someone.

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This is probably not the greatest idea.

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It feels a bit stupid.

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Let's look at an alternative.

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So I'm really looking forward to that.

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We've got another segment which I'm really

looking forward to, which is not.

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Normally in media, normally in industries,

people like you said, there's a little bit

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of animosity and I see it a lot in the

golf industry.

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I see it a lot in pop culture.

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Like with Star Wars, you'll see it a lot

in gaming.

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As you said, everyone's getting battered.

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It's all about being divisive, isn't it?

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It's all about sort of, you know, this is

what I think and you're wrong.

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I wanted to go the other way with this

one.

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So we've got a segment called the

flattering ram, which I want to use to, I

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want to use to highlight good people.

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doing good things.

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And that might just be something as simple

as giving a shout out to Harry Durand's

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wonderful hair or James Cridland's

wonderful tie, whatever that might be,

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just something to spread positivity.

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But in essence, all jokes aside,

highlighting people that are doing great

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work, right, highlighting people that are

doing good things.

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: 00:14:48

And again, I don't know about you, but I

feel like there's just not necessarily

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enough of that in the industry.

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: 00:14:54

Yeah, we're all very good at complaining

about stuff.

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: 00:14:57

Like I know Neil, Neil Veglio, who's one

of our podcasters, who's mentioned about

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: 00:15:02

Apple being slow today, not ingesting new

episodes.

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: 00:15:05

And it's easy, and that's not a dig at

Neil at all, but it's easy to go online

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: 00:15:09

and say, hey, this isn't working, as

opposed to saying, hey, Apple's published

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: 00:15:13

1 ,000 of my episodes so far for 10 of my

clients.

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: 00:15:15

It's awesome.

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: 00:15:16

I'll give them all away slack this

morning.

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: 00:15:19

So yeah, I think it's nice to, it's very

easy to complain about something.

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it's less easy to give credit where it's

due.

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: 00:15:26

And I think that's a nice way, again, it's

a whole inclusiveness of the space and

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really recognizing the people that are

doing great things, but aren't necessarily

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shouting from the rooftops to bring

attention to themselves.

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: 00:15:38

So it'd be nice to actually shine a

spotlight on them.

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Yeah, I like that.

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: 00:15:42

And I feel there's a lot of importance in

the little micro things, the micro details

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that people do, just the little the

interactions, the help that people give

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: 00:15:51

online and just be able to shout out to

people on Twitter, you know, someone

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: 00:15:54

someone asking a question and someone

diving in with an answer and then

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following it up.

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: 00:15:57

You know, these little things don't get

credited that much in the industry, but

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that's where we came from.

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: 00:16:01

That kind of we talked about earlier, that

inclusiveness and that ability for

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: 00:16:04

everyone to kind of help each other was

what attracted me.

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: 00:16:06

It's what attracted you.

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: 00:16:08

And I just don't feel like because we've

become an industry in this big media.

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: 00:16:12

There's a lot of that that gets missed.

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: 00:16:13

So I really want to kind of find some of

those and just highlight some of those,

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: 00:16:17

give people a big shout out.

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: 00:16:20

And the last segment that we'll talk

about, and it's important to note, we

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: 00:16:23

might not feature every one of these

segments in every episode.

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: 00:16:27

It's really kind of a nice, flexible

brand, which I really like.

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: 00:16:33

But the last one is the wonderfully

whimsical podcasting wishlist, which I

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: 00:16:38

really wanted to get in there as a...

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: 00:16:41

You know, wouldn't it be nice if this

thing occurred or wouldn't it be nice if

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: 00:16:47

this thing existed and just a way for us

to kind of start to ideate.

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: 00:16:51

And I think personally that.

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: 00:16:55

Everyone has ideas in podcasting, whether

you're a bedroom podcast or whether you're

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: 00:16:59

someone running a, you know, a

multimillion dollar media agency or

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: 00:17:03

whatever that might be.

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: 00:17:05

Everyone has ideas about progressing the

industry, and I want to try and give as

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: 00:17:07

much spotlight to those as possible.

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: 00:17:09

So the.

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: 00:17:10

wonderfully whimsical podcasting wishlist

is I think it's just a way of getting

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: 00:17:14

people to be comfortable sharing ideas.

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: 00:17:18

And that might be you or me.

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: 00:17:20

It might be things that we've seen online

and giving shout outs and credits, but

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: 00:17:23

also people that we have on the show, the

independent podcast that might not feel

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: 00:17:28

like they've got a voice.

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: 00:17:29

You know, I really want to highlight those

those those podcasting perspectives.

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: 00:17:33

And you must see this all the time in

Reddit, you know, all the ideas and so on.

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: 00:17:36

But no one gets credit for it, do they?

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: 00:17:38

No, exactly.

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: 00:17:39

And there's a lot of great ideas there as

well that saves time.

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: 00:17:44

And for the indie podcasters, saving time

is so, so key to enjoying podcasting.

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: 00:17:49

You don't want to be lumbered down,

spending hours and hours on research and

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: 00:17:53

editing and everything.

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: 00:17:54

So there's lots of good ideas come from

Reddit.

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: 00:17:56

Say, wouldn't it be awesome if I could do

this once I uploaded my file?

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: 00:17:59

All this crazy stuff for me.

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: 00:18:02

Now, it might not be realistic, but why

not think ahead?

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: 00:18:06

Well, and that's where we all develop.

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: 00:18:08

That's back to the all ships rise thing.

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: 00:18:09

You know, when it when we think about the

way that we've all developed as hosting

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: 00:18:13

platforms and some of the other technology

that exists in the space, it didn't exist

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: 00:18:16

before.

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: 00:18:17

You know, everything that has come about

in podcasting is born of a problem, which

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: 00:18:20

is then forced an idea.

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: 00:18:22

And we continue to do that.

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: 00:18:23

We captivate and all the other hosts

continue to do that in their own specific

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: 00:18:26

ways.

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: 00:18:27

And it's I just feel like a lot of people

don't get the credit for it.

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: 00:18:31

We got on the other day was Stephen.

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: 00:18:33

And.

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: 00:18:34

one of our podcasters that recently hit a

million downloads and he just, I emailed

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: 00:18:37

him to congratulate him.

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: 00:18:38

Just a really well done, man.

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: 00:18:39

That's amazing.

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: 00:18:40

Email back and said, you know, have you

thought about this?

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: 00:18:42

And actually the thing that he'd

suggested, it was very adjacent to a

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: 00:18:47

project that I'd just briefed for

Captivate.

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: 00:18:49

And I was able to go back to him and say,

mate, like I will, here's the brief that I

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: 00:18:52

wrote for this idea.

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: 00:18:54

Do you mind if I add your bit to it?

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: 00:18:55

And obviously we'd love to shout out and

credit you on it.

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: 00:18:57

And I just, I don't feel that that exists

enough in the industry.

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: 00:19:01

So.

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: 00:19:02

I think it's just equalizing it.

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: 00:19:04

It's not driven by the thought leaders

solely.

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: 00:19:08

It's driven by podcasters, people,

everyone.

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: 00:19:12

This is everyone's industry.

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: 00:19:15

It's not for the top 1%, is it?

419

: 00:19:18

Nah, it's always the end user that comes

up with the best ideas because they're the

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: 00:19:21

ones that are using the product day in,

day out.

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: 00:19:22

Like we work at Captivate, so we might

think there's a really cool feature coming

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: 00:19:26

out.

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: 00:19:27

But when you actually give it to beta

testers and real life users, they'll come

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: 00:19:31

back and say, you know what, this part

doesn't work that we haven't spotted

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: 00:19:34

because we've been embedded with it for so

long.

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: 00:19:36

So it's always the end user, I feel, that

makes a product better and comes up with

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: 00:19:40

some of the cooler ideas to actually help

more podcasters get to where they want to

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: 00:19:45

go to as well.

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: 00:19:47

Yeah, I love that.

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: 00:19:48

I love that.

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: 00:19:48

Well, I'm excited for the show, mate.

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: 00:19:50

Thank you for thank you for co -hosting it

with me.

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: 00:19:52

It's not even it's not even something that

feels like a chore, is it?

434

: 00:19:56

It just feels like fun.

435

: 00:19:57

It's one of those fun things.

436

: 00:20:00

Yep, yeah, exactly.

437

: 00:20:01

We have to, I mean, obviously I'm in

Canada, you're in the UK.

438

: 00:20:03

I was going to say we have to do one on a

Friday night.

439

: 00:20:05

Well, that might be a bit tougher to do,

like have a beer in the other side or

440

: 00:20:08

whatever.

441

: 00:20:08

But yeah, I'm really looking forward to

this.

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: 00:20:11

It feels fresh, it feels fun and a little

bit different from what's currently out

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: 00:20:16

there.

444

: 00:20:16

So yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to

it.

445

: 00:20:18

Good man, appreciate it.

446

: 00:20:19

Yeah, we'll get some live recordings as

well.

447

: 00:20:21

If you ever see Danny or myself or both of

us at a podcasting event, we will more

448

: 00:20:24

than likely have a microphone recording

something for In -N -Around podcasting.

449

: 00:20:28

Now we're going to be releasing every

episode every week on a Tuesday morning.

450

: 00:20:34

So it will be there in your podcast app of

choice in In -N -Around podcasting .com

451

: 00:20:38

slash listen.

452

: 00:20:40

You can find us on the old Twitter.

453

: 00:20:41

How are we allowed to say Twitter these

days?

454

: 00:20:43

You can find us on X.

455

: 00:20:44

I never call it X.

456

: 00:20:47

Yeah, find us on Twitter.

457

: 00:20:48

in around podcast, go and find us.

458

: 00:20:51

You'll see on my profile as well at Mr.

459

: 00:20:53

Asquith.

460

: 00:20:54

But we're looking forward to this.

461

: 00:20:56

And remember, this is the accessible

podcast industry show that is here and

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: 00:21:00

exists solely to highlight powerful

podcasting perspectives.

463

: 00:21:04

So we'll see you on the first episode.

464

: 00:21:06

Enjoy and tell your friends.

465

: 00:21:08

Pod on.

466

: 00:21:11

Pod on.

467

: 00:21:12

I mean, does catchphrase pod.